Saturday 31 August 2013

The "wired to believe" notion: Why should it imply God?


I thought I'd put together a brief collection of my thoughts on the implications of some genetic basis for the belief in Gods.

This is as a result of looking at articles like the following.



And I'm just reading Sam Harris' book “The End of Faith: Religion, Terror and the future of Reason”, which touches on the subject.

In chapter 2 “The Nature of belief”, Harris discusses the reasons that are given for belief in Gods and lays out why these are not acceptable. It is not enough to believe in God because it makes one feel good or because it feels natural. There must be an evidence based reason, as we have evidence based reasons for everything else we believe. He gives the example of believing there is a large diamond buried in his backyard – it may make you feel better to believe this, but there is very little reason for doing so.

As an aside, I love the way Harris calls Pascal's Wager “an epistemological Ponzi scheme”. Wonderful stuff. I can just imagine Pascal jokingly cold-calling people to try and get their investment in a fund that only offers returns contingent on his success to lure many others to give him their funds. A house of cards with shaky foundations, if ever there was one.

If, as indeed seems to be the case, we are genetically pre-disposed for belief, I do not accept at all that is any kind of evidence for the truth of the claim for God's existence. In fact, it suggests the opposite to me.

I do not have any problem with the hard-wired hypothesis being true. But I think the most likely, and most parsimonious reason is not because God created us that way, but rather, because it is either an evolved neural adaptation, or a cultural meme. Perhaps stemming from the notion of the Alpha male, a leader of the tribe, that may have guided the earliest groups of Homo Sapiens and his complete authority leading to groups that worked in unison, and so were able to survive, despite the inequality. I really like Rosa Rubicondior's exposition of this idea.


Going back to the question of whether hard-wiring supports God's existence, I have set out all the possible options below. Which of the following statements is most impressive for believers to tout, and what if anything do they say about the nature of the truth for the existence of God?

a) We are NOT pre-disposed to believe in a God, and most people do NOT believe in God

b) We are NOT pre-disposed to believe in a God, and most people DO believe in God

c) We ARE pre-disposed to believe in a God, and most people do NOT believe in God

d) We ARE pre-disposed to believe in a God, and most people DO believe in God

Statement d) is the true statement as far as we know. But this is just following what comes naturally. I can't see any real surprises here. The most impressive statement for believers would be b) , NOT d), because if b) were true then our belief would have been IN SPITE of our predisposition, not because of it; implying that there was at least a strong human need for belief that went against our ancestral genetic heritage.

Statistics suggest that the Western world at least is moving towards statement c) being true. This is a nail in the coffin for religion, because it means despite a genetic advantage leading people towards faith, most people are turning their backs and choosing rationality ahead of “comfort”.

The Daily Fail had their own predictably inane take on all this:


Whilst I accept that it may not be possible, or even be desirable to eliminate all irrational thought, religion represents such a huge rotten edifice of irrationality that breaking it down would surely still be colossally beneficial to humanity.

Superstition though is I think another matter and I don't think we should want to completely eliminate it for the occasional advantages it may bring. Placebo effects, psychology, and the power of positive thought – these are potentially powerful notions that warrant more scientific exploration. And of course we need to maintain a sense of community, and purpose for people, especially those who may be exiting from religious belief.

Friday 23 August 2013

What is it with the Telegraph and atheist-bashers?

Oh no. See here.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100231060/are-atheists-mentally-ill/


Sean Thomas' protestations are as tedious, fallacious and condescending as they are familiar, predictable and pathetic.

I could go on all day about how wrong this is.

Instead, think about this. Long have we know that the believer is happier than the skeptic. George Bernard Shaw said as much, many moons ago. People don't become atheists for their personal happiness. This is not news.

And how many of these seemingly random factoids does he pull out, with dubious causation/correlation relationships? Quite a few, I think. For example, "the more often you go to Church, the longer you live". Wow, that looks like a weak piece of logic. There are many other factors that could influence churchgoing habits, and also be correlated with health, wellbeing or longevity, such as close family ties or societal support for those who are part of the God-club, in many countries where atheists are shunned and struggle to come forward with health complaints.


The biggest classic here for me, is where he says:

"Meanwhile in 2009 a team of Harvard psychologists discovered that believers who checked into hospital with broken hips reported less depression, had shorter hospital stays, and could hobble further when they left hospital – as compared to their similarly crippled but heathen fellow-sufferers."


Well blow me. Broken hips, you say?

Only, you forgot to mention every other possible hospital-worthy ailment, (of which there must be hundreds!) which presumably did not show any such correlation or I'm sure you'd have mentioned that as well seeing as you are probably CHERRY PICKING!

Seriously though, we can't exactly be sure of the data from which Thomas draws here because he doesn't quote his sources. This can be a bit of a red flag.

Isn't it funny how the atheists-IQ meta-study which Thomas was referring to is "a crude metric of IQ" whilst his un-referenced data is suddenly "a vast body of research amassed over recent decades". Some of which comes from the Templeton Foundation, I might add. In fact, a meta-study is an overview of a vast body of research.

Can some of Sean Thomas' points be mechanistically plausible please? How would being a believer heal you faster anyhow? The power of positive thought? Unless you claim to have irrefutable evidence for God. Good luck with the Nobel Prize, dude.

Nope. Really, shoot a buckshot-loaded shotgun at a barn door and you're bound to find a few embedded pellets, no matter your marksmanship.

Sean Thomas, you are dismissed.

NEXT!

Oh yeah, Brendan O'Neill, atheist overlord that he is, has seen fit to publish another inane piece, which was dealt with well by the Scathing Atheist (Noah Lugeons, ha!) in his recent podcast which I will link to here. His telling commentary is bang on I think.

Here's O'Neill's piece.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100230985/how-atheists-became-the-most-colossally-smug-and-annoying-people-on-the-planet/



For the refutation, see Episode 27 - Partial Transcript (23 Aug 2013) - The Diatribe - or listen to the episode from the site. Even better, subscribe on Stitcher or iTunes, 'cause it's a great show!

http://scathingatheist.com/



Bye-bye Brendan.

By the way, the Daily Telegraph is a really crappy paper, isn't it? If they ever decide to stop bashing atheists, I'll be sure to let you know.


Entropy is not wrong

I saw this rather objectionable video on Youtube.

URL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIa9hjsIQJ4

Actually, entropy is not wrong. The second law of thermodynamics says that the entropy of a closed (or isolated) system like the Universe must not decrease. Indeed, the entropy of the universe is increasing.

Entropy is disorder. At the moment, in the universe we have localised areas of high energy (e.g. stars), surrounded by vast areas of low energy (deep space). Entropy would undo this energy differential by seeing to it that the energy was equally dispersed, and no transfers took place (since all space had the same low energy).

This low energy is not in a usable form, but still counts towards heating the universe by the tiniest of amounts. Heat is the low-quality form of energy that is most easily transferred to equalise energy, so we can see how this process drives the lives of stars, when they slowly cool over billions of years and eventually end up either exploded, or at a much closer temperature to outside space. This is the "thermodynamic" arrow of time.

This notion of the "arrow of time", a concept developed by Arthur Eddington, is one of the chief drivers of causality and the reason we can experience "time".

The notion of entropy can be further imagined by considering the number of possible arrangements for quanta of energy to occupy in a given configuration. The greater the number of arrangements, the greater the entropy. As the boundaries of the universe push ever outwards, the number of available locations in which energy can exist is constantly increasing.

As energy dissipates out to occupy some of this space, it reduces the energy available in the ordered areas of the universe away from the extreme edges. Thus we can see the start of the process that will eventually lead to the much-vaunted "heat death" of the universe, where all local energy sources are exchanged for a dead deep space at fractions of a degree above absolute zero. This is the "cosmological" arrow of time.

There are other arrows of time as well, which can be looked at in more detail
here.

It is always a subject which really fascinates me.


Sunday 11 August 2013

Creationists (Again!)

I hate to bang on about this, but creationists REALLY get on my nerves. I'd like to take this opportunity to put forward some counterpoints to some of their arguments I've commonly heard. Just check out Twitter and search #intelligentdesign, #creationism or #yec (Young Earth creationists). Be prepared for full-on madness. They just don't understand evolution. Virtually everyone who does understand it to some reasonable extent will likely be pretty convinced by its explanatory power and predictive capacity.

Charles Darwin was truly a great man.

Oh well, here we go.


1)"Design is everywhere"

No. The illusion of design is everywhere. As Richard Dawkins says, it's "cranes, not skyhooks" that are responsible for the bottom-up development of complexity that is evolution. Seeing design, or seriously asking the question "have you ever seen a painting without a painter?" shows a complete mis-understanding of how biological systems work. Its easy to see an example of design without a designer: a beautiful growth of crystals out of a saturated solution of metal salt such as copper (II) sulphate. The complex architecture of a termite mound, the "designers" of which are tiny insects with tiny brains. These structures are the direct result of completely natural physical processes.
 


Even if we did accept that elements of the natural world were designed, this does not lead to the conclusion that there is a god, let alone any specific god. I think it was David Hume (pre-Darwin by the way) who first used the argument that there is actually quite a bit of compromise and some faults in biological systems, and that this is more indicative of for example, an agent who was a bit incompetent, or had to design by committee where many agents had a "say" in the design, or had even abandoned a first iteration of his creation as flawed.
 




2)"Show me observable evidence of a change in KIND"



This is one of Ray Comfort's favourites. No, I shan't Ray. I'm actually quite glad that I can't as well, because if I could, this would mean that evolutionary biologists were actually a bit mistaken in thinking that evolution was a very slow process.


Oh dear, where to begin. The whole notion of "kinds" is a total red herring and utterly misleading. No-one who understands evolution would talk about what you mean in this way. You effectively mean transition from one species to another. But it is obvious that this MUST happen, in order to achieve the biological diversity that we see in the world today. However, creationists have previously shown that they are dissatisfied with "mere" speciation events themselves.

The only other answer of course, is that species started as they are already, because they were created by god and rescued from the flood. Pfft. This possibility is so utterly absurd!

*So how much can a species change before becoming another "kind"? An infinite amount, apparently.

I'm not joking. Creationists never define where one "kind" ends and another begins. As it is physically impossible for a member of one species to give birth to a member of another, the argument of seeing changing "kinds" is self-refuting. If we play along with creationist theory, we have still had 6000 years for species to evolve and they look a lot different now than they did back then. That said, how idiotic do you have to be to think that heading from point A towards point B will NOT eventually get you to point B, no matter how slow you are going? However, this is what they are effectively saying.

What would they expect to see if evolution were a natural process (as it is)? Crocoducks? Get real! Such simplistic features do not define the origins of species.

How much "micro" evolution amounts to "macro" evolution exactly? More than an infinite amount, it would seem. Now that's a weighted deck, if ever I saw one.

These "kinds" apparently have no bounds, and it is therefore intellectually dishonest to ask to see transitions between them.

*Asking to see a video of the murder before being able to convict the suspect, regardless of other evidence.

This is effectively the creationist position for the acceptable standard of evidence to accept evolution. They want the video tapes, dammit! They want to witness the change of a monkey into a man! They want to see the act committed. They want to see the murderer pull the trigger!

Of course, I shouldn't need to tell you that such a detailed proof is unnecessary to accept the proposition that an event very probably happened, and we can say that was how it happened, since all available evidence points to the same conclusion.

In a court of law, the jury doesn't need video evidence of a murder to convict the suspect. Many other forms of evidence are admissible and can lead to a clear picture of events, easily sufficient to convict the suspect. The same is true of evolution.

If was outside the front of my house and am now inside it, it is logical to conclude that I walked through the front door to get there, even if I can't recall doing so and there is no CCTV evidence of the event occurring.

My conclusion is that creationists place no value on inductive logic. But epistemology says otherwise.

If we were to take the creationist approach to evolution proof for everything, we would to believe anything we didn't personally witness and experience ourselves. And nothing would ever get done, no progress would ever be made.

 

3)"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

This is a real classic. The logic of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's famous character Sherlock Holmes, a 19th century sleuth, applied to the "puzzling riddle of the changing species". Sorry, couldn't resist.


Let's not forget that Conan Doyle was such a genius that he was deceived into believing fairies were real, by a scam by 2 young girls in the infamous Cottingley Fairies episode.



 
Needless to day this did Conan Doyle's credibility no good (although it does not affect the quality of his literary works).

This is a real cautionary tale for creationists because it shows what an utter fail this "logic" is when applied to real life problems. It's fine when used in crime fiction stories, where the possibilities for the murder are limited by the confines of author's mind. But when we have no clue about what other possibilities could be in play for explaining the change in the characteristics of species over time, we CANNOT simply find a few "problems" with an otherwise brilliant solution, call it "impossible" and then accept another incredibly implausible solution with no mechanistic value, simply because a stupid "rule" tells us to. It's not a game of pick A, B or C. That is NOT how science is done.

HINT: UK Creationist ---> https://twitter.com/loadsofducks



"Credulity is not a virtue" as they say.

In real science, we thoughtfully and carefully work our way up from the most basic principles to a hypothesis that explains the empirical evidence to date. Embedded in this hypothesis MUST be a scientifically plausible MECHANISM for the process to operate by (so far, composed of entirely naturalistic means). The hypothesis is tested with new evidence, and subjected to peer review where others try and prove it wrong. Only after surviving this onslaught do we even contemplate calling the hypothesis a THEORY.

A better and simpler rule would be Occam's razor. The most parsimonious answer. The simplest solution, with fewest assumptions, should be examined first and is the most likely to be true.

I do find it rather intellectually dishonest of some people to repeatedly attempt to pick holes in the theory of evolution by using the same tired old arguments which have been refuted over and over. It's not enough to pick holes. That's even if there are holes to pick. They are mainly just things we haven't seen yet. Evolution is studied to improve our understanding of it.You'd need to do a whole lot better than that, to replace evolution with another theory that works even better.

I'm sticking with the current best theory.



4)"So you think life just appeared by accident then"

No, accident implies an agent. No agents are involved, only natural processes. Chance would be a slightly more accurate word. There was much opportunity for abiogenesis to occur. As we don't know what the chances of life not eventually happening are, and we admit that were many millions of years of amenable conditions where life was not created, it should not be difficult to concede that this is very plausible, since only one abiogenesis event was necessary. It all progressed from simple chemical interactions of increasingly complex carbon-based molecules. Just as biology and evolution are chemistry happening on a larger scale, the diversity of species we see today are a result of evolution on a larger scale. There is no "micro" and "macro" evolution. Just evolution.





5)"Order cannot be created by accident"
 
Again with the accident. Grrrr....Please see above.


Order can be created by natural processes. It's a simple question of thermodynamics. "Order" is related to potential energy (equivalent to enthalpy in chemistry) and Entropy. A system wants to have the most energetically stable arrangement possible, in other words that with the lowest potential energy. However, entropically, it wants to have the greatest number of possible arrangements in which quanta of energy could be placed. In this latter sense, gases are favourable to solids, as gases have less ordered structures and tend to be less dense. However, we know that solids exist. One reason for this is because solids are often much more energetically favourable than gases, with stronger bonds and ordered structures. So we always have these two forces (enthalpy and entropy)competing against each other to determine what chemical reactions occur and what forms the molecules or chemicals take.

If external energy is applied, for example sunlight (which could provide energy in the form of light, or heat) or geothermal energy, then other forms can be adopted by chemicals, and otherwise unfavourable reactions can occur. This can be due to activation barriers being overcome or the product having inherently more energy than the starting materials. Large molecules like DNA can form from simple chemistry when enough energy is applied. We then start to see the basis for self-replication in biological systems.

Saying something like (and I've heard creationists say this, honestly) "I'll believe evolution when a Boeing 747 spontaneously forms in a scrapyard". This really smacks of indoctrination to me. Blind submission to creationist propaganda.

Just as a feature of insanity is repeating the same actions in the same circumstances and expecting a different result, I submit that a feature of indoctrination is the inability to see analogies of a critique that you make, in your own situation, resulting in extreme hypocrisy.

Speaking of indoctrination, I'd like to end with a truly ironic instance of hypocrisy from a famous Creationist advocate. Read and, well, let your jaw drop.

 

+++



 




"Ray Comfort. WHAT IF TOMORROW THERE WAS REAL PROOF GOD DID NOT EXIST, WHAT WOULD BE YOUR NEXT PLAN?" Brian Talbot

I would make it a matter of urgent prayer, and ask God to give me wisdom on what to do next.

++++



Someone who is in a cult will still cling to his beliefs despite evidence to the contrary. Such is the way with the believer in evolution.

Retweeted by James Expand



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Here are screen grabs if you don't believe me:



 





++++

AHEM. So when will Ray Comfort admit that Christianity is indeed a cult, as he so clearly said above?

++++


* James, what if tomorrow there were real evidence hat God did exist, what would be your next plan?
"I suppose I'd have to start obeying and worshipping him. But I'd have many questions. Firstly, which god is he, then why did he create the Universe just for us and why leave it so long before revealing himself (in the process, letting so much wrongness occur in the world). And I'd also ask why Heaven wasn't bursting at the seams with disgruntled citizens, angry at why so many had been excluded on arbitrary grounds.."

"Word".

 


Tuesday 6 August 2013

Questions of Faith, Heaven and Hell

Faith. That old refuge for the believer. The answer to a crisis of faith, it always seems, is more faith. But why? This type of thinking can be highly damaging. See an example here of a US Church which encourages its congregation to only pray when they are ill, and not seek any medical attention. Two children already died, and another will probably be left partially blind due to her parents not treating their daughter's horrific eye condition.


It has become central to the religious mind-set. So much so, that some believers these days openly admit that they do not even want to have evidence of God's existence. Sometimes when we talk about this on Twitter, we'll get the "You know that will never be possible" line from a Christian!

I just cannot comprehend that. How you could actually not wish to see evidence that could realise your beliefs as true? Probably because having more faith is seen as a bonus in their social groups. But it seems dishonest to me. It's not as if in the case of evidence coming to hand, that they wouldn't jump on it and proclaim their belief to be true. We get certain believers seeing the face of Jesus on a slice of toast for goodness' sake! And the constant influx of poor people being taken advantage of at the end of their lives at places like Lourdes.

On the false hope of a regression to the mean, um, I should say, a "miracle".

I suppose it's just another way of kidding oneself.

+

The dynamics of Heaven and Hell really are one of the absurd aspects of religious belief, (along with the "soul" and at what point this enters humans, but conveniently not other animals).

By my reckoning, if they existed Heaven and Hell must be real physical places. The alternative of course would be "spiritual" places (or I believe the preferred answer of the apologist, "meta-physical"). However I can see no reason to believe this. What does meta-physical even mean? There are no examples of meta-physical states of existence I can think of. I am concluding that this is just load of bullshit made up to rationalise another impossible stone-age idea.

If heaven/hell are spiritual. In the absence of other pertinent experiences, I'm going to assume this is effectively like a dream. Which means it is not real by any serious yardstick. The only reason dreams feel so real and that we may be able to feel pain in them, is that when having them we are actually still connected to our own bodies. The mind/brain link is the only thing that can be shown to trigger pain responses, beyond the obvious possible physical interactions. So if we're dead, you won't be able to feel pleasure or pain. It will be a bit like watching a video, I'd imagine.

If heaven/hell are physical. My first question is, where are they? Up in the clouds? Down in the mantle? I don't think so. No sign yet of these necessarily huge realms inhabited by blessed or cursed souls. Of course, to be physical, our consciousness must be transferred to another body as ours is still in he morgue. This is dualism - currently impossible.

Of course the get-out clause would always be "Satan makes you feel pain" (or God for that matter if he thinks you deserve to be punished, what a great dude). But this goes back to the old canard of Special-Pleading. When we are sent to hell, you can't get away from the notion that this is a GOD being infinitely more evil than Hitler was - we are receiving an infinite punishment for a finite crime. I can't think of anything MORE unjust. And yet God is supposed to uphold the ultimate paradox of being perfectly just and perfectly merciful. Which is a logical impossibility, by the way.

+



Other nonsensical aspects of Heaven/Hell:
Timescales - "Eternity". Why didn't they just say "a really long time"? Eternity - really? The universe will end in another few billion years! That would cause a bit of upheaval I think, quite a big influx! In fact I think eternity might just mean "eternity for us" - i.e. the same time as own lifespans, that would be my own interpretation. How come "eternity" is literal? Other things from the Bible are taken as figurative. Remember, this "eternity" comes from the same people who think the world is 6000-10000 years old, and that 2000 years out of this total still counts as "soon" when applied to Judgement day, or the Rapture, or Jesus' return, whatever the hell they say it is. Yeah, 20% of the age of the earth, that's real soon.

The "evil" Devil and "good" God - The Devil is always made out to be the evil guy, but in terms of Heaven/Hell, he's just doing what he knows - doing his job. The Devil punishes "bad" people, which is apparently what they "deserve". Why is that so evil?

God is the high-and-mighty judge sending us that way to begin with. He is the one ignoring the unavoidable protests from those good people in Heaven who must surely be objecting to those good non-believers who are being turned away. Just think about it. If I were a good person in Heaven, the first thing I'd do is offer to exchange places with some non-believer who was better than me (not hard to find). If that wasn't allowed, we would protest about it surely? And that would lead to dissent and tension in Heaven. Sounds great, no?

And what about believers who were let into Heaven despite their foul deeds? We'd be positively clamouring to get them swapped out for those more worthy, especially those who didn't quite make the cut. And all this has been going on for 2000 years. To me, heaven sounds like a noisy prison inhabited by either powerless people who can't influence God and can't breakout, or brainwashed fools who don't care to. Either way, it's not somewhere I want to go.

Now tell me God is REALLY the good one.



Additional: 17 Dec 2013

The following has also occurred to me, which I thought was relevant to this topic. In an attempt to try and refute the Argument from Evil, theists will often bring up the notion that God must allow some evil people to exist in the world, to provide a contrast for good to be defined against. I usually try and argue this point, stating that God should be able to, if he were omnipotent, only allow people to exist who are always good, and then somehow "fix the game" to make it appear as though we still have virtuous good (good done freely, when evil was also an option). After all, the illusion of free will can seem remarkably similar to the real thing. However, I find that this intejection is always rapidly disregarded for some reason. But can it be? It seems to me that the example of Heaven clearly shows that God is able in principle to create a self-contained zone or domain where evil is alleged not to exist at all. It appears to me as if God would be able to create an evil-free world if he so wished - as long as there existed elsewhere a good-free world to compensate. However, it is not at all obvious to me that these two locations need to be merged or even accessible from each other.

Therefore I do not accept the refutation that some evil must be allowed in this world. As an aside, this argument leads me to another thought on the absurdity of Heaven, that being the free-will of its inhabitants. If you think about it, all Heaven does is pass on the problem of evil by one step. Most theists would probably admit that many of the people in Heaven are not perfect and still had character flaws when they entered. Now either you lose free will when entering (cosmic dictatorship, anyone?) or we must allow for the possibility that friction between these different personalities could emerge. This could then lead to evil deeds being done. Given the eternity promised for Heaven dwellers, this is not a possibility that can be dismissed lightly. So it seems to me that Heaven must either be a drone colony for God worshippers, or little different from this world, just a step on. Does Heaven have another Heaven after it where the less evil inhabitants are sent. Are wrongdoers sent to Hell, or back to Earth? Do we have an infite regress of Heavens ?! Does God explode in a puff of logic ? (Credit to the late, great Douglas Adams). These are questions that theists should be able to answer, yet usually cannot.

This is the same God, by the way, who is supposed to be "immaterial...as a spirit" and at the same time in whose "image we are made". Arrogant poppycock. Last time I checked, I looked less like Kasper the naughty ghost and more like a regular white dude. "On the first day, man created God" as us atheists say. Bloody Hyperactive Agency Detection Device.

***

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperactive_agency_detection_device

Sunday 4 August 2013

Omniscience and Free Will

http://rosarubicondior.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/on-omniscience-and-free-will.html



I have recently been looking at @rosarubicondior 's excellent blog site, and an article caught my attention.

Having read through this quite carefully and also the (very long) series of comments underneath, which actually comprise a lengthy debate, I felt compelled to write down a few of my own comments on this matter.

Rosa poses the question:

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If God has always known what you will have for breakfast tomorrow, can you choose to have something else instead?
If yes, Then something can happen that God didn’t know about, so God is not omniscient or inerrant. God got it wrong, and god didn’t know your eventual choice.


If no, So you can't chose to do something other than what God has known you’ll do, and had known for ever that you’ll do, even from before he (so it is believe) created you.

In that case, God’s inerrant omniscience means you don't have free will and your actions have all been pre-determined for you by God’s prior knowledge of your actions. In effect, you are no different to an automaton.

And, as a mere automaton of course, you can’t be held responsible for you actions. Accountability lies with the person controlling you – which is er... God.

And that means all this stuff about human disobedience, sin and needing to beg God for forgiveness is wrong.


+

 
 


I was actually quite impressed by the Christian argument opposing Rosa's original conclusions. I agree that Rosa's interpretation of the was slightly simplified.

I also accept the Christian apologetics following conclusions:

"The simple answer to your dilemma is "Yes." But the consequence you draw -- that "God got it wrong" -- does not follow. It would follow if your question had been a slightly different one: "... will you choose to have something else instead?" The proper answer to that question would be "No.""

 

I agree that this is shown to be logically valid in the ensuing debate. The summary of why this is the case can be summarised as:



1* We make free choices

2* God has foreknowledge of our eventual actions which is NOT inferred from a prediction of behaviour
 

Still playing along with the Christian argument, there are a couple of important explanatory points:


A. "Free Will" is generally defined as the ability to make free choices, so this part of the argument holds up.

B. Foreknowledge is distinct from pre-determinism. i.e. God knows what we will do ourselves, rather than has pre-determined the actions himself.

C. The foreknowledge of our actions is direct knowledge and is not inference from a predictive model.

Dissecting the Christian Argument

Of course, if this were all true, the argument would be sound. However, looking at points 1,2, and A, B and C, it is easy to see where the problems lie.

 



Points 1 and A - Free Choice vs. Free Will

An interesting commentary can be found here: http://www.science20.com/gerhard_adam/free_will_vs_free_choice-110514



 

I agree with this conclusion, which is basically that having "free choice" is NOT sufficient to argue that we have "free will". Reasons for this include other instances of choice, such as those made by other animals, or as outputs from a computer, have no associated connotations of free-will.

Notice that it's easy to conflate free choice and free will. However they have a different sense about them linked to the sentience of the creature experiencing them, and their ability to post-rationalise their decision as their own choice. (Compare the parable of the fox and the grapes as an example of cognitive dissonance).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes



In reality, cognitive neuroscience has shown that the subconscious parts of our brains make the decision for us before we become consciously aware of it (see for example, Sam Harris' writings such as The Moral Landscape). This means that when we make "choices" we are merely parroting the results of electrochemical interactions in our brains. The results from these interactions are determined by a large variety of factors, psychological and physical, however our own conscious cognitive desire is not one of them.

To me, and I have no doubt many others, the notion that we do not truly possess free will, at least to some extent, is somewhat problematic. I like to posit my own free will in terms of uncertainty of results from a predictive model. Imagine a (super)computer that modelled your mind to the extent that it could produce highly accurate predictions of your own choices and so, your own behaviour. It shared models of the same physical and psychological factors that I myself possessed and used to make decisions. Say I was faced with a particular situation in which there were three possible outcomes. I would either do A, B or C. The computer predicted I would choose action A most of the time, occasionally action B but very rarely action C . I'd like to be able to think that by acting unpredictably, I could generate results that were different to the computer's predictions in a statistically significant way. For me this feels better. However this remains just a personal rationalisation.


The Bible is most probably wrong about humanity having free will, and certainly wrong about free choice. It's as simple as that.


Points 2, B and C - Foreknowledge
How can foreknowledge be obtained? What mechanism is used to obtain it, and can this be demonstrated? I have yet to hear a satisfactory answer to this question from Christians.

Christians may think that rationalising foreknowledge as the answer to the free will/omniscience problem answers all our questions, but actually it just poses other questions which I think show that God can't exist, or if he did, he is not very moral, and hence the Bible is again wrong.

Let's take the points with simplest first: Foreknowledge is distinct from pre-determinism. So God didn't make our choices for us, but knows what they will be. Since God is the creator of the universe in the Xtian narrative, this to me seems analogous to God simply picking from an infinite list of possible realities which he knows in intimate detail (foreknowledge) rather than making the choices himself and forming the reality and outcomes himself (pre-determinism).

However, if he is able to pick one of these realities to have foreknowledge of, why didn't he pick one with less suffering and death? Granted there may have been worse possibilities in the theological pseudo-reality we have constructed to demonstrate this argument, however, it seems obvious to me that there would also be many better possibilities than this one which he has chosen. Having foreknowledge of terrible tragedies, death, disaster and genocide should have made him want to avoid them, by choosing a better reality, if he was actually some paragon of morality.

No doubt theologians would try to rationalise away this genuine issue with the God hypothesis by saying that I'm in some way anthropomorphising God into a form that can be understood by humans, and this is not a valid analogy. They would then probably return to their churches, and with no irony state that we can speak to God everyday though prayer, and that he would inherently understand what we mean and that we can equally well interpret God's instructions to us as demonstrated by the Bible, and translate them into our anthropic forms and worldly environment. But given the lack of possible ways provided to me, in which foreknowledge could be obtained, I'm making my best guesses. Why isn't God providing the answer to his followers? I'm sorry, but either there is some issue with the man-God interface or there isn't. You can't have it both ways. That's special pleading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading




+

Next, we'll tackle how foreknowledge could be direct knowledge and not obtained from inference from a predictive model. I can only think of two ways:



*The inerrant super SuperComputer option
This uses the same analogy of predictive model, however, in this example, the computer "knows all" and has a 100% accuracy score. Thus it is always correct and no "inference" needs to be made from its predictions. OK.


* The time-travelling super "Doctor Who" option
If we're not able to predict the outcomes of all events and choices using a model, another option would be to enter a "sandpit" of the upcoming posited Universe and explore it in its entirety, measuring all outcomes everywhere throughout all time in order to gain the foreknowledge. OK.

However, these options are both complete fantasy and in no way could they ever possibly be true. There exists uncertainty in everything - the supercomputer would be a logical impossibility. there would always be a slight margin for error, unless of course the computer itself contained the actual universe it was modelling, in which case we have the same problem again. The other option relies on time-travel being possible and the assumption that knowledge of the future means that choices made in the present cannot affect this truth (the "free choice" is actually an illusion); there are also other potential show-stoppers like the observer-interaction effect (either God is in the Universe, or he isn't) and he must be sure that his presence or lack of it does not effect the eventual choices - of people by believing in him or not and of matter/antimatter interactions. However, as we know, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle rules this out. By measuring the Universe in order to obtain foreknowledge, God has actually altered the reality in that universe, and so the foreknowledge is now wrong, and he must re-start his assessment. It sounds like a difficult task, doesn't it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heisenberg_uncertainty_principle



I now refer you again to my paragraph above "No doubt theologians would try to rationalise away this genuine issue with the God hypothesis"...

Of course, there are no real-life examples of the type of foreknowledge claimed by the Christian apologists for God, in rationalising the free-will/omniscience problem. Indeed, this is something that only a "God" can do and so is in itself again special pleading.

The whole notion of foreknowledge is inherently ridiculous. Quantum mechanics tells us that virtual particles pop in and out of existence everywhere. If God actually went about measuring these before they existed, as in my "Doctor Who" idea above; these same virtual particles that can explain the origin of the universe without the need for him; I think he'd "vanish in a puff of logic" as Douglas Adams so eloquently put it. There is uncertainty in everything.

Hence my previous statement about the foreknowledge argument providing better evidence for the non-existence of God than it does for his existence!

This is actually quite revealing of how arrogant and un-wise Christian thinking can be - to actually think it is preferable to have foreknowledge - to learn something by rote, rather than learn to formulate and use a model for predicting what we see in the world. The former can certainly lead to dogma, whilst the latter always leads to greater understanding, even if the model is initially wrong. As rational humans, we use an iterative, scientific process to constantly improve our models, and gain better insight into the way the universe works.


Thursday 1 August 2013

My thoughts on Atheism Plus

Atheism Plus (abbreviated Atheism+ or A+) from RationalWiki:

Atheism Plus ... is a movement proposed in 2012 by blogger Jen McCreight. Its original definition was rather nebulous, but in general it is intended to be a subset of the atheism movement that attempts to unite atheists who wish to use their shared atheist identity as a basis for addressing political and social issues and engaging in related activism...

...The idea originated as a reaction to the nastiness flung about during a controversy over (sexual) harassment policies at atheist/skeptical conferences, which in turn was a re-ignition of the controversy over sexism in those two movements that had been smoldering since Elevatorgate.



Look at the FAQ page for some basic concepts.




I am not an Atheism + member nor do I currently intend to become one. Here is a quick summary of my thoughts surrounding the group. Some people are bound to think I'm being too soft on them, but I've deliberately tried to be reasonable and fair.

When it started up A+ had a lot of fans, as evidenced by the comments on Jen's Blog. The following link is fairly infamous (it's a really good post actually, pretty awesome, I agree with a lot of it)




Now, Below is what I'd consider a normal tweet from one of the main A+ advocates:




Again: social justice or GTFO. Mere secularism is not impressive or special. We all agree on the god thing- what else ya got? C'mon. Try.




I find it difficult to reconcile "empathy and consideration for minorities" with the "you're with us or against us" mentality (which apparently was rejected by consensus in the group, however, clearly some members still subscribe to this view.)

Looking at their twitter feed, there seems to be quite a bit of stress and discomfort going around. To find aggressive, sweary tweets littering a so-called "safe space" seems strange. It is not uncommon to see a "FU** you then bitch" followed by a comment about triggering, or ableism, much softer notions. I have seen some infighting and name-calling, presumably in the process of reaching a consensus. There does seem to be some cognitive dissonance going on.

Let me be clear: I have nothing against A+ members and do not doubt their sincerity in trying to go one step further for social justice, as it were. I admire Jen McCreight for her steel and feel sorry for the shit she puts up with - I sure couldn't cope with that. I share many (not all) of her opinions and views, and understand why many people felt that A+ was required. It is an interesting concept.

Atheism+ is symptomatic of the need that an increasing number of atheists feel to unite in their pursuit of a shared sense of social justice. It is not really a "bad idea", more just a "flawed" one. Its formation is not really surprising, nor inherently undesirable. However, as a concept for a movement, I consider it somewhat problematic. A main issue for me surrounds the conflation of atheism (lack of belief in gods) which tells us nothing of a person's other beliefs; and the social justice tag and how this is interpreted into a particular brand of feminism, humanism (wait what, I thought we'd rejected that?), skepticism, anti-racism etc. Sometimes there does not seem to be much internal skepticism going on surrounding the scope of the movement and possibly overreaching. But as it's an idea in its infancy, this is not entirely unexpected.

The forum boards at A+ are interesting, and one of its main features. The forum rules and clunky, labyrinthine moderation policy are something to see - multiple levels of suspensions, block and bans for different types of infringement on the forum threads. While part of me can sympathise with this, it does seem like a bit of an affront to Freedom of Speech. As I've previously made clear, I'm not actually that big a fan of FoS in that it is too often used to justify abuse. But even I can see issues with the apparently Draconian levels of moderation on the A+ forums. Then there is the BlockBot, an algorithm tool adopted by A+ which used to keep tabs on users and block comments containing certain offensive or triggering words (this integrates with Twitter). However, its effectiveness does appear to be in question, as you can be blocked from A+ or its members very easily for not really saying anything rude or abusive. I'd imagine that polite constructive criticism would be encouraged, however, looking at some of the reactions of A+ members to people being blocked, they're not too concerned about this problem.

Also, the distinction from Humanism, an already well established association mainly populated by atheists, seems to me to be rather dubious, as claimed on a "belief" basis, i.e. A+ is specifically only for atheists. The amount of "ritual" in Humanism is pretty minimal. This approach seems to be rather exclusionary of the more "belief-sympathetic" or "still a bit religious" humanists . These are sometimes vulnerable people in the midst of de-conversion. This is almost saying that the social justice of non-atheistic humanists is not important, which I don't think was intended. It's rather contradictory, as A+ was supposed to be all about inclusion.

A+ currently seems to be dogged by several possibly insurmountable problems. I cannot see that it will succeed to a significant degree, but it will probably be replaced by something similar. Most atheists take an apathetic attitude to A+, others are more directly negative about it. Then of course there are the idiotic trolls who have made it their mission to harass and disparage the group. I utterly condemn their sick behaviour.

Generally, Atheism Plus's reputation is not good in the community. This is a bit of a shame, as I would have liked to see it achieve at least some of its aims. I would be interested to see the level of take-up of A+ registered user accounts - how many atheists are talking on the forums on a daily basis? I would also like to know the number or percentage of users who have been banned or suspended. Regardless, in the future, we may be able to look back and see that A+ was a necessary step, a first iteration, on the path to a more inclusive group for those godless people who want to see secularism and social justice promoted. Maybe it will encourage Humanism to evolve (not that I think it particularly needs to at the moment). The least I can say about it is that it's an interesting social experiment!


Adoption vs. having kids: Wow, this is just what I've been thinking....

I'm just re-blogging this excellent Big Think article from Tauriq Moosa because it perfectly reflects (and goes beyond in fact) my own thoughts on adoption, and how we should do more of it.

http://bigthink.com/against-the-new-taboo/why-you-should-adopt-and-not-create-children